[Career Explorer]我这样的申top 10有戏吗？请牛牛们看看··

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=317491&star=1#317491
Q:

我的背景和别人都不同，所以觉得比较孤立啊···
本科是liberal arts，在读硕士econ mgmt，工作背景政府公务员2年，但不是国家部委，我知道很多商务部的牛人拿到top mba的：（555
IBT 109,GMAT未考，GRE考过了，现在准备GMAT还来得及吗，8月之前考完，每天都能考吗？？
现在有2个选择，请牛牛们看看哪种对今后发展更有利呢？
A. 今年去读UT-Austin的MPA/MBA,不是prof acc的MPA,是public affairs，MPA给我全奖的，但是MPA在美国找不到工作，我想过去了读dual degree mba或者转会计的，然后在美国工作1-2年申请top 10 mba
B. 今年申请top 10 MBA,失败了就再工作一年申请？但是我不知道可能性有多大，我的工作经验和business相关的很少，顶多就是regulation管制企业，或者促进企业发展，比如和奇瑞公司合作促进出口，但都是从政府的角度来看的，我听说biz school喜欢diverse background，我的背景的确不同，但是和finance，banking，IT等的牛牛们比会显得不match吗？

还有个问题是我的政府经验会成为我将来求职的劣势吗？因为没在private sector里做过，将来的雇主会不会要那些以前就在consulting，finance里做过多年的MBA，而不选择我呢？

我是小菜鸟，想今后在美国的consulting，ibank工作段时间，今年快23了，选A的话读完年龄很大了：（ B的话读完26，27当然如果能成功的话～～～
请牛牛们给点建议吧···谢谢～～


A:
目前LZ前10没战很不好意思讲泄气话
主要问题不是在考试成绩或是政府经验
而是LZ本身对生涯方向的选择没有明确依据
即使GMAT冲到750都一样没战
跟工作经验年资没有太大关系
当然目前年资太浅
但主要是这样没有头绪的状况即使多工作三年也没战
一方面是目前没有任何MBA必要性
谁都想找好工作
但这不足以构成MBA动机
想要有战,必须要能证明LZ在"申请前"本身已经有多项领导成就
并有精确未来生涯方向及目标
且非透过MBA完成不可
并且能够透过MBA修行,而产生两倍三倍甚至五倍十倍以上的重大领导能力
要能有这样的明确生涯方向
必须要从生涯三元素找出"激情","性格",与"专业能力"
三项有顺序关系
目前LZ若想要有战
必须要找出激情与性格元素
来抽取出长期生涯方向
专业能力可以培养
然而目前为止的生涯方向跳跃,逻辑模糊
不论是MPA或是MBA都没有明确的必要性及不可取代性

又目前为止还没有任何证据能证明LZ有高度成功领导特质
这样即使GMAT750
也会被关在top20门外

毕业后求职方面,楼主有个致命的心态问题需要解决
就是生涯是由自己开创争取
而不是向雇主乞求施与
即便竞争者有优异背景撑腰
LZ也要想办法不断提升自身能力
来创造职场竞争力
而不是讨论谁做过顾问谁做过高官

其他细部生涯规划与申请方向可以私下讨论

[Program Fitting]Pls give me some suggestion

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=316911&star=1#2870508
Q:
Pls give me some suggestion
April 15th is approaching, i have to make a decision soon. I am a bit torn between the choices, hopefully you guys can give me some ideas.
1. Vandy , 32K/yr
2, Notre Dame, 35k/yr
3, Olin, full tuition
Which school will give me a better chance at landing a decent paid job in the marketing field? Thanks!

A:
Just open their curriculum on marketing concentration
you'll see Notre Dame's marketing is fairly blur and limited
many key elements are missing
no consumer behavior, which is the most critical one
no pricing, no marcom tactics, no operation or supply chain integration, no sales and no channel management.

while Vandy and Olin are both well-rounded and competitive
deep consumer insight, solid market research, brand and marcom strategies and tactics, sales negotiation and product innovation, CRM with database marketing, channel management, also digital marketing

Then see their recruiting statistics
although Vandy is quite complete on marketing course design
both Vandy and Notre Dame have only 21~22% work in marketing function
whereas Olin has a 31% in marketing function, with the most decent salary out of three
$89k,
Vandy has a $1373 weekly=$71,396 annually
Notre Dame has a $6,300 monthly in marketing=$75,600 annaully

So Olin will be the best choice, while both overall ranking and tuition compensation are the most attractive

[Career Explorer]请牛人分析我的背景申请北美TOP10的可能性

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=316546&star=4#316546

以下是引用poetfarmer在2008-4-11 9:33:00的发言：多谢各位的指点！简述一下我的背景：１。Ｇ／Ｔ都还没考，但自己英语底子还是比较自信的，一直都是做海外销售。２。本科是原来的华中理工毕业，毕业后在一个国内顶级电信设备公司作技术，工程师。１年后调到国内ＮＯ１的手机设计公司做海外销售，２年till July, 现在的position是海外一区域市场的team leader.我得疑惑主要在：其实个人的最终目标还是创业，但是面临一个创业不确定性的问题，曾经有几个创业项目都因为各种资源的原因没成，所以打算进行止损，干脆加入TOP IB先解决财务自由，当然ＩＢ的经验积累对我将来的创业也有好处。创业的偶像是柳传志，但可惜无法遇到像他那样好的机会，所以想走沈南鹏那样的道路，觉得TOP MBA->TOP IB-> START UP比较具有可行性。ＰＳ鹤蛲砣ゲ渭恿饲寤桑停拢恋男律婊幔芴甯芯鮠iversity非常不够，而且担心Ｉ班的清华老师都是大陆人，可能讲全英文课程无法讲的细致，可能最终只是蜻蜓点水。Ｉ班的前辈也反映过这种情况。请前辈再帮忙深入分析一把，拜谢先。
呵呵　补充一下，本人１年的技术工作有２个月的海外经历。２年的销售ｂａｓｅ在北京，不过海外出差比较频繁。希望加入ＣＤ，分享智慧。

--
A:
講實話 一切要等GT都出來以後才能考慮
什麼事都有可能 不管什麼分數都有例外
不過MBA進的了哪間跟出來要去哪不是看機率
而是看爭取
工程背景要創業 跟MBA中間有哪些關聯
有人創業不需要MBA
有人靠MBA創業
MBA無所不包 您要的是裡面的哪幾塊
為什麼? 而又要怎麼用上

多半在生涯管理選擇中
對創業人士最簡單直接的問題就是
如果不創業您要做啥?
創業是不歸路 所有成敗一人扛
拿自己的錢來燒
不是想進就進的來 也不是想放就放的下
LZ創業的替代道路是top IB
不能完全說不切實際
但還要問其中的關聯在哪
又全世界真正進IB領域的華人一年大約只有一百多人
比進consulting firm還難
即使進去了也只是拿命來換錢
重點是這站上茫茫三十萬人海 幾乎還沒人真正賺到IB的錢
在您連GT都還沒考的狀況下
可能說這一切都嫌太早
當然不是質疑LZ的能力
只是一切都還要等有硬體分數這項最基本的門檻以後
才有辦法進行下一步生涯規劃

[Career Explorer]Suggested line of work?

美國商周商學院論壇上,
有人詢問25歲若未來要念MBA名校
應該選擇哪種生涯路線
這位詢問者有相當不錯的諮詢顧問潛能
但其中有幾項生涯選擇不合邏輯
請見小弟分析如下

http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=75186


From: davidlee0222
Date: 2008-04-12T00:25:50
Very typical example of MBA career management. It's a global business that not limited to Chinese.
· From: dionusos
·
· Total Posts: 64
· Posted: Apr-10
I'm 25 years old, and I have been an administrative assistant for the past 2.5 years. Last 1.5 years at a health care company. I need to look for a new job that will put me in a better position to get into MBA school in a few years. What positions should I look for?
1) "Analyst" ?
2) IT support (I hope it's not hard to pick up and learn...)
3) Fill in the blank.
I just have no clue!

BTW my target industry for post-MBA work... I am very open to anything, but my top choices are Marketing and Finance.
(cont'd.)
I'm not sure how much more specific I can get than saying I want to be the director of a department at a company, a department that makes decisions concerning Brand Management, advancing and protecting the brand image of the company. Do I have to cite a specific company and product? Okay, well, I want to be the director of the Entertainment Department at Sony and decide how to market the next Playstation console.For example, this console generation had a controversial move that Sony was heavily criticized for--inclusion of the Blu-Ray drive (and the requirement that all game developers use the Blu-Ray disc). This raised the price on the PS3 and caused many to say that the xBox 360 would beat out the PS3. Sony, being much more experienced with hardware than the software giant of Microsoft, would surely take a big hit in their brand image in the console industry if this happened. The Sony Playstation became legendary with its second incarnation, but the name Sony was still not as resilient in console gaming as Nintendo, and Sony couldn't afford to lose out in this battle after so much investment.The decision to include Blu-Ray was risky and overlapped into the high-def media war with HD DVD, but winning over Warner Brothers through exclusive deals secured the victory, and now the PS3 is seen as a bargain way to have a gaming console and a high-def media player all in one.The overlapping of media players and console gaming was done before when Sony decided that that the PS2 would feature the software to play DVD movies. The buggy state of the PS2 DVD player led the masses to speculate that Sony would leave console gaming and movie players as separate markets. But Sony surprised everyone with the PS3.I want to be the guy who makes the decisions on how to market Son'y shoe entertainment products. I want to be one who takes Sony's reputation from "Oh yeah they're generally good, but not the best deal caused they are overpriced" to "Oh yeah, Sony!! They make great hardware like gaming consoles and HDTVs!!! Sure it's a little pricey but well worth it. Better to spend $500 on something you love than spend $350 on something that feels cheap and will break on you."I'll add another example if that helps.Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola have very different approaches to marketing their products. Pepsi Cola embraced non-carbonated beverages (Gatorade, Sobe) earlier, and expanded globally much faster than Coca Cola. Coca Cola was a little stubborn with developing non-carboated beverages, and wanted to concentrate on the market in America . Pepsi Cola's advertisement reacnhed out to the younger crowd, known to drink more soft drinks than their older counterparts. Coca Cola, looking back, realized how conservative their advertisement campaign was, and how it did not appeal to the younger generation. Coca Cola also ran into trouble with some of their bottling businesses, some of which were family-run and could not afford the low margin of profit. Coca Cola was losing the battle so bad, that to eliminate debt, Coca Cola brought back a retired ex-president, who came up with the highly regarded "51% solution" of keeping 51% of Coca Cola's stocks, while taking the other 49% and forming the Coke Company (correct me if I am wrong on the exact names). This eliminated millions in debt by taking advantage of a loophole in the law.So to give you an idea of what I want to do, I DON'T want to be the guy who is charged with coming up with the next brilliant 51% solution, but I DO want to be the guy who helps change Coca Cola's strategy of what types of drinks to develop (do we pool our resources into making new kinds of Powerade, or do we make more carbonated drinks?), and where to market the drinks (concentrate on the United States, or spread it out to Europe? Or the whole world?). In general, I'd like to be the guy who made everyone stop saying "Oh yeah, Coke, my dad drinks that" and instead, start saying "Why would I drink that Pepsi when there's perfectly good Coke right here? Save the Pepsi for your little sister."Again, thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. If there is anyone else out there that can make suggestions despite my vaguery, please do so!

Answer:
From: davidlee0222
Total Posts: 30
Posted: 8:09 PM
To: dionusos
:: Unread ::
18 of 18 75386.18
Reply to 75386.9
Hi Dionusos,
I believe you might be facing several blind spots in your career logic now. First is the reverse logic that you're choosing your career paths based on "pursuing a decent MBA." All due respect but the logic is error by nature. Your MBA should be something supplemental that can significantly accelerate your solid career objectives, not a "goal" by itself. Nobody knows what will exactly happen in future, but at least you need a direction or narrowed options as focused as possible, then you can figure out why you need an MBA and what part of it you'll need. So far these career choices are still all random. You need to find out by your career logic.
It's quite obviously that you have some analytical potential, but that may be misleading since the points you analyzed were the "afterward outcomes" that already reflected by the market, and these were only the surface of the operations and business strategies that either PS3 v.s. 360 or Coke v.s. Pepsi you need to go much deep down at least 4 to 5 levels to see internally the short-term and long-term business strategies, market-orientation, consumer perception and demand, brand strategy, product positioning relates to product portfolio, financial structures, supply chain networks, outsourcing practices, competitive landscapes, operation value chain, channel structures and profit splits, and then "forecast" the market for either profitabilities and stock influencials, so as to execute brand promotion, product selling campaigns, and pricing tactics.
But all of these are not your career pathing considerations. Career drivers are 3 major elements: Passion, Characteristics, and Professional Capabilities. Now although you had such a brillent analysis on market, it still cannot confirm whether the consulting-related jobs will be your career yet, since you need some concrete evidence on your real-world career. You need to prove to yourself that consulting or something else can be your life-long career, even though you might need "a decent MBA" first to get into certain industries like consulting, you have to prove your potential first by solid evidence, whatever it can be, to "knock the door" on these professions.
Another key may be your age and experience that 2.5 years are still too unpredictable to try to "settle down" your career. It'll be a huge risk based on very limited evidence and career track. Some of those evidences may be temporary or even false. You need at least a coule of years to observe and examine your best fit from 3 career drivers. Then see if you need a MBA and how significant it can play a role in your life. We can talk in private to find out your career progress and find out those career drivers.
David
MBA Career Manager
davidlee0222big1@gmail.com

"Chinese Ask David": http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=75186

[Program Fitting]請教賢拜 : BU IMP (1YR MBA) VS USC IBEAR ( 1YR MBA)

http://www.chemy.idv.tw/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=199923#199923
Q:
USC較BU學費貴了USD 20K ,痛痛痛 考量重點如下: 1.實際課程及師資的品質,希望Focus 在Int'l Mgmt+Acc't. 2.學校及課程名聲、校友支持度 3.畢業後就業的考量((在美國或台灣皆可,工作身分OK) 4.若考慮不就業繼續攻商博(目標加州Top Tier B-School) 感恩 !!

A:
MBA is a terminal degree
it's totally different path from Ph.D

regarding other issues
USC has better reputation, more competitive student body better recognition in Asia, wider and more sophisticated course selection

while BU has decent location for finance and consulting fields
BU also has some close connection with consulting industry
the courses are more fundamental and easier to absorb

请NN们关注一下小offer的选择吧(Full-time MBA)!

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=316164&star=2#2862628
Q:

本人二年IT工程师，四年IT项目管理经验，计划转行金融，目前有UF和W&M两个offer；请各位XDJM们帮帮忙吧，根据您宝贵的经验和见地，帮小弟选择一下吧，小弟先谢过了。
一、学校排名
university of florida：学校综合排名47； USnews34； 金融时报64；华尔街6；商业周刊41；福布斯51
William and Mary：学校综合排名31； USnews58；金融时报71； 华尔街17；商业周刊28；福布斯49
二、金融专业排名
university of florida：usnews排名20
william and mary： 无排名
三、奖学金情况：
william and mary：学费在80％奖学金后还需花15000$，另担负健康保险，生活费，和书费等杂费；
总花费大约42,000$；
University of Florida：学费在GA后全免，健康保险全免，两年学校还提供2000$生活费
总花费大约25,000$；
四、其他比较：
college of william and mary地理位置较好，距离华盛顿2.5小时车程，且在DC声誉较好；GMAT平均分610左右；US news2007就业率63.8％；平均薪资84000$
UF，地理位置一般，旅游和农业城市，毕业生多在本州就业，gmat平均分670左右。US news2007就业率80.4％，平均薪资70000$。


A:
W&M is a very market-oriented school
also very career-focused, deep training on leadership and managerial communication
both finance and B2C marketing are extraordinarily solid
they even fly to NYC to visit Blackrock Financial Management
which created private equity fashion and dominates it from the heaven
lots of company visits and guest speakers in almost every concentration
location also great that's driving distance to Washington D.C.
UF is one of the largest college in the U.S.
excellent campus and strong academic and research
while for MBA, it's more traditional approach on program design and lecturing
not as dynamic and aggressive as W&M Mason
but good environment for research
very peaceful geography

[Program Fitting]Finance IU and Vandy

http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=74702.15&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools
Q:
"While Vandy does have almost 2 levels more sophisticated courses than Kelley, Vandy goes to experiencial and higher academic finance. "
Can you expound on this? I am also choosing between Vandy and IU for finance and would like to get a better understanding of what you mean. Thanks

A:
When you compare both programs and match the courses one by one, you'll see Vandy is slightly more complete while Kelley is a bit speed up and focus more on Investment banking (yellow ones match almost perfectly, red ones are absent). The program logic when you see the course number sequence, Vandy builds quite from the ground and Kelley also solids on the fundamentals while rushs a bit to IB.
Both have very long course lists while Kelley is slightly shorter. Vandy goes more on academic and Kelley goes more on hottest topics of IB. So you can see the general ranking Kelley is higher but Vandy is more a standard in Finance.

(please see the original link, the format here is unclear.)
Vandy
Investments
Corporate Valuation
Corporate Financial Policy
International Financial Markets and Instruments
International Corporate Finance
Equities Markets
Bond Markets
Derivatives Markets
Financial Institutions
Real Estate Financial Analysis
Real Estate Investment & Development
Real Estate Finance and Capital Markets
Mergers and Acquisitions
Venture Capital/Private Equity
Risk Management
Financial Data Analysis
Derivative Securities Valuation
Active Portfolio Management
Special Topics, Corporate Governance
Special Topics in Accounting: Federal Income Taxation of Mergers and Acquisitions
Asset Pricing Theory
Corporate Finance Theory
Empirical Methods in Finance A
Empirical Methods in Finance B
Advanced Finance Theory
Independent Study in Finance
Research Seminar in Corporate Finance
Stochastic Processes

no banking
--

Kelley, IU
BUS-F 506 Commercial and Investment Banking
BUS-F 520 Asset Valuation and Strategy
BUS-F 546 Corporate Financial Strategy
BUS-F 570 International Financial Markets
BUS-F 571 International Corporate Finance
BUS-F 529 Equity Markets
BUS-F 528 Fixed Income Investments
　
BUS-F 505 Financial Intermediation
BUS-R 590 Independent Study in Real Estate
BUS-R 510 Real Estate Investment
BUS-R 530 Real Estate Finance
　
BUS-F 517 Venture Capital & Entrepreneurial Finance
BUS-F 525 Corporate Financial Risk Management
　
BUS-F 526 Derivative Securities
BUS-F 550 Applied Portfolio Selection
BUS-F 548 Corporate Governance and Restructuring
BUS-F 540 The Firm in the Capital Markets
BUS-F 508 Real Options in Capital Budgeting
　
BUS-F 507 Short-Term Financial Management
BUS-F 560 Special Topics in Finance
BUS-F 551 Special Projects in Investments
BUS-F 590 Independent Study in Finance
BUS-F 590 Independent Study in Finance
　
BUS-F 553 Special Projects in Investment Banking
BUS-F 554 Special Topics in Investment Banking
BUS-F 535 Security Trading and Market Making

no M&A
no derivatives

[Program Fitting]选校的矛盾，请大家说说意见呀！

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=315888&star=1#2858190
Q:
个人背景：大四即将毕业。专业电子，辅修商科。生活在business环境，有实习但没有全职工作经历。目标回国，从事公司理财或个人理财。打算今年秋出国，现在选校焦点集中在两所学校上，想问问大家的意见。UCSD MBA 2年（2万奖每年）和USF旧金山大学 金融分析 1年（6千奖）。UCSD MBA刚办几年，校友资源比较少，而且自己没有全职工作经验，不知道能否吸收。USF实在不知道这个学校到底如何，在国内貌似名声不大好。但有亲戚在那比较方便。以后可以考CFA，或者回国工作几年再申请top的MBA。但不知道USF还值得花那么多钱去读。大家的意见呢？Thank you！

A:
the study itself is a huge risk before your real work experience
since it'll be too late when you work a couple of years afterward and figure out you're in the wrong way
go to work first will be more realistic
you won't learn much now anyway
no much meaning to choose between them

[Career Explorer]美国top20的MBA，毕业后想从事金融行业，难度有多大呢？

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=315958&star=1#2858174
Q:
以下是引用lecherous在2008-4-7 21:33:00的发言：
估计很多CDer都有这样的疑问，不好意思又挑起了一下。说实话，出国读个MBA，其实跟博士完全是两码事，前者是去花钱，一百多万；后者是去赚钱，一百多万。不得不慎重。
假定一个没有金融背景的人，只在比较有名的500强外企做过几年工程师，在美国读了个top30MBA，今后从事金融业的机会大么？
进IB如何？不是说什么GS，MS，ML等超级大牛，而是二三流的银行/证券公司的IB部门。
那么如果又换一下，如果是top10呢？二三流的IB还是很难进吗？

A:
need to find out why an engineer wants to do finance
these are 2 different planets
you must find out the passion deep in your blood
or you'll lose both of them
it needs to be something in your personality, characteristics, and your professional background
find out your irreplaceables
do you keep your account everyday?
do you invest by yourself and make money? how do you manage your portfolio?
can you excel at numbers? can you speak to those numbers and listen to them?
do you know the specific trends in the industries? how do you know and why?
which stocks will surge in next 3 months? which ones will free fall?
how do you crunch those surging ones to balance the free fall ones?
what will you do if your finance door is close?
and the last thing
why and how can you get in top 30 or even top 10 if you don't know yourself well enough?
need to find out all these answers
MBA is terminal degree
it's the end when you finish it
Ph.D serves for totally different purposes
but there's 99% no overlap

[Career Explorer]各位大侠们，这年龄还值得出国吗???????????????

http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=315999&star=1#2858132
Q:
32了，明年入学的时候都33了
现在的情况是，收入税前20万左右，有房无女朋友（刚分）
家里高压让尽快找女朋友，GMAT刚准备一个多月，如无意外 TOP 20 很有希望
这种情况下还值得折腾吗，各位神仙给给意见啊。复习的时候突然开始很怀疑这个选择

A:
it's still a decent age
and you might find a good gf abroad
but you can't know about top 20 only after a month of GMAT
score is only 20%
while it's very true like Littleca said
what's your MBA motivation and why it's relevant to your career